CIWL carriages in Greece

Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby Dirk Frielingsdorf » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:27 am

Thank you so far! Does anybody know the identity of the second former CIWL-car in that Thessaloniki-Workshop?

If no painted number ist on the coach: Among the doors are often still the brass plates (often painted over) by the manufacturer, this can provide information about the identity.

Edit: Another Plate might be on the wall between Plattform and carbody, showing the old CIWL-Number.
Last edited by Dirk Frielingsdorf on Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby GAZKGK » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:36 am

It most probably is 71-48 254-1.

There are no builder plates next to the steps.

DSC_2855.JPG


DSC_2852.JPG
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby Dirk Frielingsdorf » Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:54 pm

Following recent satellite images on google-maps there are no former CIWL cars shown in Lachanokipi any more. Can anyone say anything about the whereabouts of the still in 2012 there photographed cars? Is the car cemetery still existing or has it moved or was it given up? If so, what happened to all that cars?

These cars are last reported at Lachanokipi (quoted from Tim's first post):
- CIWL 3514 & 51 66 06-41 142-4 - OSE 51 73 06 41 142-5 - 51 73 70-40 299-5 - Lx (EIC, La Rochelle, France 1929) Dumped at Lachanokipi, Thessaloniki, Photo taken by Jason: Link;
- CIWL 4109 – SEK OEφπτ 1007- OSE 50 73 88-20 707-2 Destroyed in collision many years ago near Livadia when turned over and hit bridge abutment. Now dumped at Lachanokipi on Y25 bogies, Photo taken by Jason: Link;
- CIWL 2198 - Another R class sleeper (Companie Générale de Construction, Saint-Denis, Paris, 1911-12. CIWL subsidiary), barely survives at Lachanokipi in the Thessaloniki area - its history is not known. Had been converted to Class R3, Photos taken by Jason: Link and Link.

Thank you for all information!
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby GAZKGK » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:29 pm

Hello Dirk..

All i have to say is that although the station where the CIWL coaches are is called Lachanokipi, the actual place is at Diavata.

The station of Lachanokipi is where the red arrow is.

LACHANOKIPI.jpg


Tomorrow i will try to write and post photos of each one of the coaches...
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby Dirk Frielingsdorf » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:44 pm

Thank you Jason!

The latest google-maps-photo shows at the northwestern end of this car cemetery a possibly steal bodied former CIWL-car at this position. The teak bodied cars I didn't found so far...

I'm looking forward to your newest photos!
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby GAZKGK » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:56 pm

The latest photos i have from there are taken in 2012, and i have already posted some in this topic.

Anyway, now i will rewrite about each of them and post photos if i have it, plus the exact co-ordinates. Please correct me if any mistakes (mostly about the builders).

The one you spotted at "Ano Magnisia" (again the name "Ano Magnisia" is a railway name, the actual area is Ionia or something) is the following:

CIWL 3469 / 41101 / 51 66 06-41 101-0 > 51 73 06-41 101-1 > 51 73 70-40 297-9 , THE BIRMINGHAM RAILWAY CARRIAGE & WAGGON Co. Ltd. BUILDERS, SMETHWICK, 1929 / WLA

CIMG8869.JPG


CIMG8874.JPG


CIMG8872.JPG


CIWL 3514 / 41142 / 51 66 06-41 142-4 > 51 73 06-41 142-5 > 51 73 70-40 299-5 , ATELIERS D' AUTRE / EIC LA ROCHELLE, 1929 / WLA

At Lachanokipi, here: https://www.google.de/maps/place/40%C2%B042'21.2%22N+22%C2%B050'12.0%22E/@40.705824,22.83667,103m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=de

DSC04383.JPG


DSC04385.JPG


DSC04384.JPG
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby BarbaPanagos » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:28 am

Athens Mayor Kostas Kotzias again, this time in 1936, about to leave for a trip to Germany...

Ο Δήμαρχος Αθηναίων, Κώστας Κοτζιάς, αναχωρεί με το τραίνο για τη Γερμανία 1936.JPG


Ο Δήμαρχος Αθηναίων, Κώστας Κοτζιάς, αναχωρεί με το τραίνο για τη Γερμανία 1936β.JPG


from the Ελληνικό Λογοτεχνικό και Ιστορικό Αρχείο - Hellenic Literary and Historical Archive http://www.elia.org.gr/default.fds?langid=2

...
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby Dirk Frielingsdorf » Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:40 pm

The teak bodied restaurant car you showed before may be identified:

GAZKGK wrote:The wooden one as it is today ...

CIMG7138.JPG


The information I had was: Built by CGC in 1911 or 1912. First of all, not many restaurant cars were built by CGC in that years, but three series in that time were built:

2127-2132, CGC 1911, out of that batch of cars No. 2129 stayed in Istanbul from 1947 on;
2199-2206, CGC 1912, to that batch of cars I hadn't no further information;
2403-2424, CGC 1913, out of that batch of cars the Numbers 2411 und 2417 stayed a period in Greece.

I now got information out of remaining lists which show the whereabouts of the cars after its withdrawal by wagons-lits. Only 2417 had a precise reference to greece:
"vendu 10/55 athénes", sold in October 1955 in Athenes. (Its reference date was May 5th, 1914, but the building plate may had shown 1913.)
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby GAZKGK » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:17 pm

Dirk, i think it would be better if we firstly summarized....

The following is what i currently have noted:

I refer to their builders as following:

(B) = The Birmingham Builders Railway Carriage & Wagon Builders - Smethwick, England
(AY) = Enterprises Industrielles Charentaises, Ateliers D' Aytre, La Rochelle, France
(NIV) = Societe Anonyme Ateliers Metallurgiques Nivelles (Belgique)
(DT) = Ste Lorraine des Anciens Ets De Dietrich, Luneville
(NAU) = Neu Aubing, Munich
(MS) = Miani Silvestri, Milano
(SD) = Compagnie General de Constructions Ste Denis


50 73 88-20 701-5 (former ΟΕφπτ 1001) - CIWL 4001 - (B) 1927 - now: Drama
50 73 88-20 702-3 (former ΟΕφπτ 1002) - CIWL 4004 - (B) 1927 - now: Thessaloniki Works
50 73 88-20 703-1 (former ΟΕφπτ 1003) - CIWL 4102 - (B) 1927 - now: Thessaloniki Mylos
50 73 88-20 704-9 (former ΟΕφπτ 1004) - CIWL 4105 - (B) 1927 - destroyed at Doxaras 16/01/1972
50 73 88-20 705-7 (former ΟΕφπτ 1005) - CIWL 4107 - (B) 1927 - now: Rouf theatre
50 73 88-20 706-5 (former ΟΕφπτ 1006) - CIWL 4108 - (B) 1927 - now: Thessaloniki Railway Museum
50 73 88-20 707-3 (former ΟΕφπτ 1007) - CIWL 4109 - (B) 1927 - now: Lachanokipi, destroyed at Kifissos 01/02/1983

51 73 70-40 297-9 (former 51 73 06-41 101-1, former CIWL 51 66 06-41 101-0) - CIWL 3469 (41101) - (B) 1929 - now: Ano Magnisia
51 73 70-40 298-7 (former 51 73 06-41 121-9, former CIWL 51 66 06-41 121-8) - CIWL 3493 (41121) - (B) 1929 - now: disappeared 99% does not exist, scr. at Lachanokipi
51 73 70-40 299-5 (former 51 73 06-41 142-5, former CIWL 51 66 06-41 142-4) - CIWL 3514 (41142) - (AY), 1929 - now: Lachanokipi

The above three were bought by OSE in 07/1974.

51 73 71-48 250-9 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 364-4) - CIWL 3937 - (AY) 1950 - now: Drama
51 73 71-48 251-7 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 348-7) - CIWL 3921 - (NIV) 1949 - now: Lachanokipi
51 73 71-48 252-5 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 361-0) - CIWL 3934 - (AY) 1950 - now: Lachanokipi (?)
51 73 71-48 253-3 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 359-4) - CIWL 3932 - (NIV) 1949 - now: Rentis depot
51 73 71-48 254-1 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 352-9) - CIWL 3925 - (NIV) 1949 - now: Thessaloniki Works
51 73 71-48 255-8 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 459-2) - CIWL 3904 - (NIV) 1949 - now: Thessaloniki Railway Museum

51 73 70-40 911-5 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 015-2) - CIWL 3604 (42015) - (DT) 1930 - now: disappeared, 99% does not exist, scr. at Lachanokipi or Magnisia
51 73 70-40 912-3 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 017-8) - CIWL 3606 (42017) - (DT) 1930 - now: Lachanokipi
51 73 70-40 913-1 (former CIWL 51 66 06-41 019-4) - CIWL 3608 (42019) - (AY) 1930 - now: Lachanokipi

The above three were bought by OSE in 07/1974.

Teak wooden cars:

ΣΥφπτ 19905 - CIWL 9195 - (NAU) 1911 - now: Rentis
ΣΥφπτ 19906 - CIWL 2122 - (MS) 1911 - now: Amfiklia
SEK / OSE unknown number - CIWL 1394 - (???) ????? - now: Lachanokipi (the one at the photo Dirk quoted)
Υφπτ 33 - CIWL 2198 - (SD) 1911 - Lachanokipi, last REV at Thessaloniki Works, 31/06/1962.

And the two luggage vans:

ΣΥφπτ 19907 - CIWL ????? - (???) ????? - was heavily damaged and scrapped at Eleonas, although was protected by law
30 73 100 7 118-7 (former ΣΥφπτ 19908) - CIWL ????? - (???) ????? - was at Rentis. In 2006 it went to Eleonas, and was there scrapped although protected by the law.

Desquenne & Giral coaches:

CIWL 2905 (SD) 1926 - was until recently at Lianokladi. Probably moved away for the new contractor to work at Lianokladi station.
CIWL 3341 (AY) 1928 - was until recently at Lianokladi. Probably moved away for the new contractor to work at Lianokladi station.

Note: Desquenne & Giral was a contractor company who upgraded the line in the 1970s. They were causing many times problems, especially at the moutainous part of the line..., such as derailments etc. They once had (of course accidentaly) set one of the ex- CIWL coaches, or the SNCF coaches they had, on fire at Lianokladi...


Other vehicles, possibly ex- CIWL:

ΑΒφπτ 245 - built in 1948 on the underframe of WR 1786 (former CIWL?, Ringhoffer 1908?)
ΑΒφπτ 265 - built in 1950 on the underframe of a "WL" as it is noted, possibly former CIWL ?
ΑΒΓφπτ 468 (since 1955 as ΒΓφπτ 482, later ΑΒφπτ 166) - built after WWII on the underframe of a "WL" as it is noted, possibly former CIWL

None of the above three still exists.



Note1: There was a former CIWL wooden coach which until the 1960s or 1970s (i don't remember exactly) was used by L.E.S., lets say the "Club" of Greek Railway men (Λ.Ε.Σ. Λέσχη Ελλήνων Σιδηροδρομικών). Ι don't know if that was any of the above, or an new one i have not mentioned....

Note3: From what is known until now, there is not any 2411 or 2417 coach.... so, the possibilities are that (a) there is a mistake in the above list, (b) it is one of the unknown CIWL-number vehicles (maybe the one used by LES?)....
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Re: CIWL carriages in Greece

Postby christo » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:33 pm

It is very comprehensive. Thanks Jason for your excellent work and of course thank you for sharing it with us.

christo.
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