Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby jsimantov » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:53 pm

While browsing through my old photographs I found this one, of an Italian Coach in OSE green, at the Thessaloniki passenger car marshalling yard
The picture was taken in May 1978 while on a trip to Alexandroupolis, using a Kodak Instamatic camera.
When I saw it for the first time, I thought it was an ex-Baden-Würtemberg coach, but a more detailed examination revealed it to be probably a III class FS Tipo 1936, converted to a IInd class in Greece.
It is of course documented that the Italian Army used military trains to transport troops and material to Greece, and that some rolling stock was left onsite after WWII.

I am wondering if anybody has the registration number of this coach; FYI, its whereabouts are now unknown...
Best Regards to All

Iossif

SCAN0073.JPG
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby christo » Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:43 pm

Iossif,

Thank you for sharing this incredible photo. Concerning the running number, in the Italian Language magazine La Rivista della Ferrovia number 16 of Autumn 2013 it states:

Bfpt 730 and later 5073 2220 470. Unlike the other 2nd class Bredas at 22.64 meters, this one was 20.02 meters long with shorter bogies of 2.5 meters. It was on open carriage with central corridor. But Jason is the one with loads of historical expertise. He probably knows more.

christo.
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby Andreas » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:25 pm

And of course besides the Italian coach (which ist a splendid find!) you can see an fully operational 1937 coach (Spyridonos) :shock:
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby jsimantov » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:26 pm

Hi again,

Christe, are you sure the UIC code of the car is 50 73? OSE was registered in those days as 51 73, and although the pic is not very sharp, despite some 'photoshopping', I am sure the registration is 51 73...

Iossif
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby christo » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:56 pm

Iossif,

In the table of that article all Bredas are given as 5073 in OSE numbering scheme I. There is also a space for OSE numbering scheme II but it is blank for all three types of 2nd class Italians.

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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby jsimantov » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:49 am

Hi,

These coaches have nothing to do with the Bredas supplied in the early 50s to Greece as war reparations; they belong to a standard series built for the FS in the 30s and known as 'Tipo 31000'. They were explicitly designated as IIIrd class coaches, and then when the 3rd class was abolished, they were reclassified as 2nd.

The main difference from the FS coaches was the rhombic-shaped decoration on the toilet windows (presumably to limit damages from stones thrown at the cars...)

They were presumably used by the Italian Army for moving troops, and a few of them remained also in Jugoslavia after WWII.

This coach is currently in the ACME 2016 catalog under No 50390; it used to be produced also by Rivarossi in the '70s...

Cheers,
Iossif
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby Andreas » Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:28 pm

Iosif...the windows dont match from the ACME coach that you cite....

Cheers
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby jsimantov » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:23 pm

ok, mea culpa...

With age, the sight can deteriorate (ου γάρ έρχεται μόνον)...
Check this one...
http://www.ebay.it/itm/302074581184?clk ... rmvSB=true
Iossif
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby Andreas » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:43 am

I would still say that the windows are too small.... :roll:
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Re: Pre-war Italian Coaches in Greece

Postby GAZKGK » Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:04 pm

Wow :o Thank you, Iossif! first time I see a photo in its original SEK livery :)

It is indeed Γφπτ 730, later Βφπτ 730.

The UIC number is also mentioned as 50 73 20-20 470-8, although I don't have any photo to prove that it was not "51". However, "51" instead of "50" would mean that the coach would be allowed to run abroad ("Διεθνούς κυκλοφορίας") and this was not common for such old ΟΣΕ coaches in UIC-number years.

Anyway, the coach appears to have been repaired as 3rd class (Γφπτ) in around May 1951, based at Piraeus.

Another note is that in early 1970s it had some technical problem which caused frequent bearing overheats, counting at least 3 within 1971. At last it was oficially withdrawn in January 1979, and was left where Iossif's photo was taken.

A few years later it was selected along with other coaches (e.g. German Σπυρίδωνος) to be converted to a sleeping car for the ΔΠΘ track renewal sites. The conversion was complete, and since May 1983 the coach was out again, this time as 30 73 100 7 321-6.

1007321_ΜΑ-(ΙΖ)-1.jpg


1007321_ΜΑ-(ΙΖ)-2.jpg
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